THEMA: ATV - All teams viable rules

Hello

My name in Nicolai - some of you will know me as Tripleskull from The danish National team at Eurobowl etc.

I am writing here because I am trying to get in contact with people who have played with the ATV-rules - especially the organizers. I am mainly interested in NAF-events and stats but I am also interested in getting feed back from other communities from anyone who have played with the rules.

The history of ATV is that they has been developed mainly for the Danish Open over the last 5-6 years. I have the impression that growing minorities are picking them up and playing with them here and there. I am delighted by this and would love to get enough data to use it as the grounds for further tweaks of the rules. Mike Davis has promised to make the data analysis.

For anyone interested, the rules in the present version can be found here:
ATV rules

And there is a World cup style Excel sheet tanks to Torsten here:
ATV ExcelSheet

Welcome at the board Nicolai

Thank you. And thanks for fixing the links. I am so old sometimes. Older than HTML!

To elaborate slightly I am looking for all NAF sanctioned Events and would like to get in contact with the people hosting those event and possibly future events.

Hi Nicolai.

Welcome in the forum.

I used them at the KlingenCon. I have to check which tournaments it was.

Another one will be the Osna Bowl in December this year which will use the newest ATV.

Cheers
Twyllenimor

Great. Thanks.

If you would put #ATV in the info when submitting on NAF that would help Mike find the data. If you can it would be much appreciated if you could put it in the old events also and/or tell me the exact event or give me links.

How big has these events been?

Do you have any comments or feed back on the rules?

Cheers

Welcome Nicolai!

You can also add

member.thenaf.net/index.php?module=NAF&t...ts&func=view&id=4061 run by modified_sven

and member.thenaf.net/index.php?module=NAF&t...ts&func=view&id=4311 run by docmaxx

Thank you!

And please put #ATV in the events in the future is possible and tell me if you have feed back.

I like your rules, but I think Orcs and Dwarfs are to strong - for me: Dwarf = Tier 0 and Orcs = Tier 1
Maybe Woodelves Tier -1 and only 5 Skills

Hi Sprinter
Thanks for the feed back. It is noted.

Orcs has been a point of contention for a long time in the context. At this point I am doing the rules alone, so I could change what I like but there is also a history and some prior stats. Orcs has never really performed well with ATV or generally. This Years Danish Open might be the exception to that rule. They have pour stats in more or less all contexts. There is probably an element of every n00b picking up orcs in this - but it is not clear how big this effect might be. I am really looking forward to getting some stats to support any further decisions on this matter. When we had a rules group og 4-5 people I was the only one really arguing against making orcs even stronger - as the stats suggested they should be.
Dwarfs might be in tier 0. They have struggled when ST4 teams and khemri have dominated but they have also been nerfed slightly lately.

While I find Wood elves strong and annoying because they don't require much skill to play ok. I think the other tier 0 teams are just about equally strong in capable hands. possibly even stronger in some cases.

In Denmark I think People take way too little Tackle, Might blow/block, sure hands and thus makes it easy for Wood elves.

I hope I don't sound dismissive. I really appreciate the feed back, but I must also say that there are a lot of conflicting things being said about what teams are strongest. And that I think is a great sign.

Always happy to play against orcs but there is no denying that - other than a lot of the other races in that bracket - they have a record of winning competitive large tournaments.

Sprinter schrieb:
I dont want to highjack this thread but I have to answer here. Dwarves Tier 0 !?!? I am sorry, they are very good against your darkies so maybe thats why you feel that way. Of course also vs woodies, skaven and Zons. But they suck bigtime vs Undead, Lizards and in general also face uphill battles vs Orcs, Khemri, Chaos Dwarves and Chaos. This is not tier 0 in my book. But I think if you have that many tiers than everybody would do the slotting slightly different and never will everybody be happy ... so I guess thats why you are looking for data

back on topic. I like your rules and I think it is a good idea to level the playing field. Not sure if the rules are perfect as they are but I appreciate you trying to improve them based on data.

Thank you for your explanation tripleskull. Maybe you are right Topas, I am not so objektive because I am playing dark elves all the time and because of that I think dwarves should be weakened. Dwarves getting so much for there Money and against all stronger teams they should use the deathroller more often (he is good against agility, too).

I think many beginner and „not so good“ Players playing orcs - or in better words we do not have worldclass coaches Generals playing with Orcs. I still think: You do not have to play well to make someone who plays well face difficulties - at least when I look at my games against orcs. that's why i would weaken orks a bit.

@ Sprinter I kind of agree. Orks are rough opponents - but they have a hard time winning games.

We had one year in Denmark where I lost the discussion about them and they where terribly OP in my opinion. They where also played a lot! i think it was 2017. They had 7 normals and a double as opposed to 8 normals now. I did mange to win a tournament trying to prove they had gotten too much but really the over all results of lots of games including games with good players was not terribly good. The biggest problem was actually that we had so many orcs at Danish Open - it was terribly borring - like 10/40 or something. As mentioned I have nerfed them a little and the meta plays a large role. After I have weakened some ST4 teams they might be a litle over the top - but I am not very worried about them.

@ Topas
We have been working on the rules for 6 years I think and while they are not perfect I am pretty confident they are the most balanced rules you will find.

The goal is set at 47-53% for non stunties and not above 50% for stunties.

The feed back along the way has generally been good but I think we are at a good place to start using data. The data will not be perfect because of different version among others but it will help and the more we get the better.

Do you have any specific teams you worry about?

Tiers look very good to me. No suggestion from my side.